Comments on: Mid-Side and Blumlein recording with the Zoom H4n http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/ home recording and acoustic guitars Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:37:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: Fran Guidry http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3233 Fran Guidry Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:12:44 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3233 Hi, Andrew. The mics are a pair of Rodes, NT2000 and NT2a. They differ in their electrical switching options but use the same capsule and spec the same. The stand is a short DR boom, designed for drum miking, I think. The On-Stage device you see is an elbow. It then holds a part made by Sabra Som, something like this: http://www.oktava.com/inc/sdetail/284 I bought a hex shaped aluminum bar to replace the very short steel bar I got with the Sabra Som parts. Additional bits from Sabra Som connected the shock mounts from Rode. It wasn't a really satisfactory setup, the aluminum bar isn't really strong enough to support two fairly heavy LD mics. Have fun with your new mics! Fran Hi, Andrew. The mics are a pair of Rodes, NT2000 and NT2a. They differ in their electrical switching options but use the same capsule and spec the same.

The stand is a short DR boom, designed for drum miking, I think. The On-Stage device you see is an elbow. It then holds a part made by Sabra Som, something like this: http://www.oktava.com/inc/sdetail/284

I bought a hex shaped aluminum bar to replace the very short steel bar I got with the Sabra Som parts. Additional bits from Sabra Som connected the shock mounts from Rode. It wasn’t a really satisfactory setup, the aluminum bar isn’t really strong enough to support two fairly heavy LD mics.

Have fun with your new mics!

Fran

]]> By: Andrew Kraus http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3232 Andrew Kraus Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:08:35 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3232 Thanks for the very interesting write up on Blumlein mid-side and plain ole Blumlein. To my ears, the plain ole Blumlein sounded more natural, and the spatial locations were more distinct. It also sounded less mid-range boomy to use a technical term. Regarding your "set-up": I'm interested in the details of your Blumlein bar. It looks as if you're using a "On-Stage" 19in boom screwed on top of a mic stand, and you've mounted your microphone (couldn't make out the brand or type from the video) shock mounts to clamps (were these MPC 10 clamps?) screwed onto the bar. Have I got any of this right? Thanks much for the article. PS - the mics I've decided on for classical piano are CM-414 from Dave Thomas at Advanced Audio in Canada. To my ears they are darn close to the sound of the old AKG C-414s, a very nice microphone for what I do. Thanks for the very interesting write up on Blumlein mid-side and plain ole Blumlein. To my ears, the plain ole Blumlein sounded more natural, and the spatial locations were more distinct. It also sounded less mid-range boomy to use a technical term.

Regarding your “set-up”: I’m interested in the details of your Blumlein bar. It looks as if you’re using a “On-Stage” 19in boom screwed on top of a mic stand, and you’ve mounted your microphone (couldn’t make out the brand or type from the video) shock mounts to clamps (were these MPC 10 clamps?) screwed onto the bar.

Have I got any of this right?

Thanks much for the article.
PS – the mics I’ve decided on for classical piano are CM-414 from Dave Thomas at Advanced Audio in Canada. To my ears they are darn close to the sound of the old AKG C-414s, a very nice microphone for what I do.

]]> By: Fran Guidry http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3093 Fran Guidry Wed, 09 Mar 2011 01:05:46 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3093 David, I've used the NT2a, the NT2000, the Shure KSM44, the AT4050, and the CAD M179 as figure 8 mics. The CAD is the least expensive. To me, the difference between mics is generally pretty subtle. You can hear some of these mics, but only in cardioid, in some of the other posts here. Fran David, I’ve used the NT2a, the NT2000, the Shure KSM44, the AT4050, and the CAD M179 as figure 8 mics. The CAD is the least expensive. To me, the difference between mics is generally pretty subtle. You can hear some of these mics, but only in cardioid, in some of the other posts here.

Fran

]]> By: david http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3092 david Wed, 09 Mar 2011 00:00:19 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3092 thanks Fran i'm reading the comparsions .. yes is more noisy that what i supposed.. at this point i really have to leave the ribbon mic idea... the only way to do a good job is to use any kind of mic but with an external micpre, the one i saw is the Sound Devices MixPre wich is very good with 66 Db of gain not so expensive ..but them is not in budget purposes anymore ... i think at this point i might need a condenser and focus on something that have a good sensitivity, find a good fig 8 or multipattern mic also .. good for the buck any suggestion beetween NT2A OKTAVA or whatever... i already have couple of mic for covering vocals cabs drums and acustic guitar so this time i should focus on a MS ambient recording .. probably a bright ,or better , flat response mic thanks again for helping me thanks Fran
i’m reading the comparsions .. yes is more noisy that what i supposed..
at this point i really have to leave the ribbon mic idea…
the only way to do a good job is to use any kind of mic but with an external micpre,
the one i saw is the Sound Devices MixPre wich is very good with 66 Db of gain
not so expensive ..but them is not in budget purposes anymore … i think
at this point i might need a condenser
and focus on something that have a good sensitivity, find a good fig 8 or multipattern mic
also .. good for the buck
any suggestion beetween NT2A OKTAVA or whatever…
i already have couple of mic for covering vocals cabs drums and acustic guitar
so this time i should focus on a MS ambient recording .. probably a bright ,or better , flat response mic
thanks again for helping me

]]> By: Fran Guidry http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3085 Fran Guidry Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:48:49 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3085 Hi, David, If you compare the H4n to the other recorders in this post: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/07/first-look-at-the-zoom-h4n/ I think you'll agree that the H4n is a bit noisy compared to a high quality recording chain. The lower output of a ribbon mic will result in a less satisfactory signal to noise ratio. Of course, if you have a loud source there will be no problem - something like a horn or drum set or electric guitar should work very well. Fran Hi, David,

If you compare the H4n to the other recorders in this post: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/07/first-look-at-the-zoom-h4n/ I think you’ll agree that the H4n is a bit noisy compared to a high quality recording chain. The lower output of a ribbon mic will result in a less satisfactory signal to noise ratio. Of course, if you have a loud source there will be no problem – something like a horn or drum set or electric guitar should work very well.

Fran

]]> By: david http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-3084 david Sun, 06 Mar 2011 23:57:56 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-3084 hi i have a zoom h4n and is a pretty good device as i have an old tdm station too.. but i like the on the go thing that it does .. i would ask if somebody tried how is this device with ribbon mics. ribbon capsule usually always need a bit of more gain .. but i'm not sure if the zoom recorder can handle the gap..and then give a very low recording resulting cutting resolution e make a useless or to noisy recording thanks for helping me hi
i have a zoom h4n and is a pretty good device as i have an old tdm station too..
but i like the on the go thing that it does ..
i would ask if somebody tried how is this device with ribbon mics.
ribbon capsule usually always need a bit of more gain .. but i’m not sure if the zoom recorder can handle the gap..and then give a very low recording resulting cutting resolution e make a useless or to noisy recording

thanks for helping me

]]> By: Fran Guidry http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-2246 Fran Guidry Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:20:22 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-2246 There's an old saying: "Silence is golden" - in recording we can say "Silence costs a lot of gold." Getting rid of background noise takes a lot of money and time and effort, you basically have to build a second room inside your room, seal every crack, build double thick walls, and on and on. This is one big reason why traditional studios were so expensive. Those of us recording at home simply have to put up with background noise. I wait until midnight to do my recording, close all the doors and windows, and if a car drives by during a quiet passage I do it over. Sorry, Fran There’s an old saying: “Silence is golden” – in recording we can say “Silence costs a lot of gold.” Getting rid of background noise takes a lot of money and time and effort, you basically have to build a second room inside your room, seal every crack, build double thick walls, and on and on. This is one big reason why traditional studios were so expensive.

Those of us recording at home simply have to put up with background noise. I wait until midnight to do my recording, close all the doors and windows, and if a car drives by during a quiet passage I do it over.

Sorry,
Fran

]]> By: Miguel Ramses http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-2243 Miguel Ramses Tue, 12 Oct 2010 14:31:06 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-2243 I'm totally a beginner with mics and all this stuff and i'm just starting to learn a lot from all this=) Thank God there are people like you=) I have a problem with my zoomh4n. Although this does not have anything to do with mid side or blumlein, I just wonder how you guys are able to achieve complete silence when recording without the sound of..Actually I turned on all the noise reductions and lo cut filters and I could still here the background and it pretty much is annoying. Can anyone help me please=( I’m totally a beginner with mics and all this stuff and i’m just starting to learn a lot from all this=) Thank God there are people like you=) I have a problem with my zoomh4n. Although this does not have anything to do with mid side or blumlein, I just wonder how you guys are able to achieve complete silence when recording without the sound of..Actually I turned on all the noise reductions and lo cut filters and I could still here the background and it pretty much is annoying. Can anyone help me please=(

]]> By: Anton Emery http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Anton Emery Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:17:37 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-86 Not cutting any tracks at home at the moment, just lusting over some recording gear. A friend might be leaving his MOTU 8pre and some mics in my care for a bit, so perhaps i will have some gear to experiment with. I would like to get an interface and some mics for myself eventually, but with doing the recording for album at Doug's, it just doesnt make sense at the moment. I hope to head down to Doug's in the next few months to finish up the tracks for my cd. Got 4 more to go. Its really nice working at his place, such a relaxing environment, and nice guitars sitting around to play. Anton Not cutting any tracks at home at the moment, just lusting over some recording gear. A friend might be leaving his MOTU 8pre and some mics in my care for a bit, so perhaps i will have some gear to experiment with. I would like to get an interface and some mics for myself eventually, but with doing the recording for album at Doug’s, it just doesnt make sense at the moment.

I hope to head down to Doug’s in the next few months to finish up the tracks for my cd. Got 4 more to go. Its really nice working at his place, such a relaxing environment, and nice guitars sitting around to play.

Anton

]]> By: Fran Guidry http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/03/21/mid-side-and-blumlein-recording-with-the-zoom-h4n/comment-page-1/#comment-83 Fran Guidry Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:06:20 +0000 http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/?p=221#comment-83 Hey, Anton, The setup you describe is exactly what you need. The inverted track is the one on the "back" side of the mid mic. So if the mid mic is arranged with its front side facing right, you invert the left track. That should do it. Are you cutting more tracks at home? I need to book some time with Doug myself, so I can try out that R88! Thanks for stopping by, Fran Hey, Anton,

The setup you describe is exactly what you need. The inverted track is the one on the “back” side of the mid mic. So if the mid mic is arranged with its front side facing right, you invert the left track.

That should do it.

Are you cutting more tracks at home? I need to book some time with Doug myself, so I can try out that R88!

Thanks for stopping by,
Fran

]]>