Some Mics for the Kodak Zi8
I’ve been touting the Zi8 as a low priced tool for “look at me” YouTube videos because it allows the use of an external mic. It’s usually the case that our preferred framing for a shot moves the camera some distance from the subject. This means that the sound recorded by the camera mic is heavily affected by the sound of the room, and that is rarely a good thing for sound quality.
By separating the mic from the camera, I should be able to position the mic for optimum sound while placing the camera for the visual effect I want. Of course, I can do this wihout an audio input on the camera by a technique called parallel recording, that is, recording on a separate audio system of some kind. The familiar clack of the slate at the start of a movie sequence is used to make it easy to synchronize the picture and sound, and this technique works very well for my homebrewed videos as well. Still it’s very tempting to think that recording directly to the camera is an easier way out, with camera audio every take and every edit lining up without any extra effort.
I’ve been interested in the range of options for attaching a mic to the Zi8, and back in December I went on a little mic shopping binge. Between my storage drawer, Ebay, and Sound Professionals I gathered a collection of mics in a range of prices. But I was struck with a glitch in my Zi8 audio, which required several round trips to attempt repair at the East Coast contract repair depot. Eventually Kodak agreed to replace my camera, but by then I was on a lovely trip to Hawai`i.
Test Design
Now that I’m back I’m ready to offer up some test clips. At first I planned to video a number of brief samples of guitar and vocal, which was very troubling to me. I strongly believe that audio sampling should be done with a single performance and carefully volume matched, in order to reduce the number of variables in the sample. As much as we think otherwise, humans just cannot judge subtle (or even not-so-subtle) differences without careful controls. My aha moment came when I realized that I was only testing audio, not video, so I could use a recorded source to get a repeatable performance. Focusing on audio only also allowed me to upload the much smaller audio clips, so the comparison will be quicker and easier.
For level matching I decided to take the easy way out and simply normalize the files. Normalizing raises the peak of a file to a given level, in this case I chose -3 dBFS. I adjusted levels like this so our ears won’t be fooled by level differences, but these samples hide the differences in the real recording you’ll get if you use one of these mics. So I’m including the original sample as well. Remember that I adjusted the sensitivity of the Zi8 for each mic, so the volume levels are affected by that even in the original, un-normalized samples.
I first created a test recording in Reaper, some slack key guitar naturally. I recorded in mono with an Audio Technica AT4050 in cardioid pattern. Then I added a bit of narration. All camera mics I know about, and many accessory mics as well, are omnidirectional. There are plenty of reasons why an omni is a good choice, but real trickery is required to get a good stereo image with omnis. So I threw in a bit of movement in the stereo field to evaluate channel separation. I arranged the narration and the stereo test ahead of the music and adjusted levels.
I placed all the mics very close to my normal listening position and played back the test recording through my normal monitoring chaing – Echo Audiofire 8, Hafler P3000, Dynaudio BM6p. A Radio Shack SPL meter showed 74 db C weighted at the mic position.
As I mentioned, I adjusted the sensitivity of the Zi8 for each mic. In each case I adjusted the sensitivity to the highest level that did not show any red. I label the default sensitivity as 0, lower sensitivity goes from -1 to -5 and higher goes from +1 to +5. I wound up using the whole range in this comparison.
Test Clips
Here’s the reference recording. It won’t get any cleaner than this.
ref.mp3
or download ref.mp3
I used the Zoom H2 as the mic in my first experiments with the Zi8, so I included it in this comparison. It’s also handy because we can record with the H2 and the Zi8 at the same time. Even though the signal in the Zoom was very low and pumped up with a lot of digital gain in the normalization process, it is quite a bit cleaner than the Zi8. I set the Zoom to M Mic Gain because tests have shown that the H setting adds noise. This still resulted in a rather low level, so raising it also raised the noise as well.
h2p.mp3
or download h2p.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
oh2p.mp3
or download oh2p.mp3
I used the rear mics on the H2 so I could operate the controls on the front of the unit. As a result the stereo left and right are backwards in both the parallel clip and the Zi8 clip. Here’s the output of the H2 headphone jack recorded on the Zi8 with sensitivity set to -3.
h2v.mp3
or download h2v.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
oh2v.mp3
or download oh2v.mp3
If you’re like me you’ve been fooling with recorders for a while, maybe going back to cassette tapes. Perhaps, like me, you have some kind of little mic in a drawer somewhere. My drawer mic is labeled www.reactivesounds.com but the web site is a dead end now. I bought this to use with my minidisc recorder a few years ago. The mic is omni, no cable (requires a female to male extension), and has been repaired with superglue. I used -2 sensitivity for this mic.
drawer.mp3
or download drawer.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
odrawer.mp3
or download odrawer.mp3
I’ve used Sound Professionals http://www.soundprofessionals.com/ for these kinds of recording gear for years. I used one of their T-mics for years with my minidisc, but somehow lost it. They still sell a mic with the same model number, SPSM-1, but it doesn’t look much like the mic I remember. I set the Zi8 to -3 sensitivity for this mic.
spsm-1.mp3
or download spsm-1.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
ospsm-1.mp3
or download ospsm-1.mp3
The SPSM-15 is the least expensive single point stereo mic sold by Sound Professionals. It appears to have a higher low frequency cutoff than the SPSM-1, and/or lower sensitivity. As a result I set the Zi8 sensitivity to -2.
spsm-15.mp3
or download spsm-15.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
ospsm-15.mp3
or download ospsm-15.mp3
The AudioTechnica AT825 has been a popular single point stereo mic for many years, but was recently discontinued. The replacements are much higher in price, so it might be worth watching for used examples of the AT825 on Ebay or Craigslist. It seemed perfectly matched to the Zi8 and worked well at the default sensitivity setting.
at825.mp3
or download at825.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
oat825.mp3
or download oat825.mp3
I was impressed with the performance of the AT825. I was very disappointed in the AudioTechnica Pro 24. Although it looks much more impressive than the T-mics from Sound Professionals, it was very low in output, requiring that I set the Zi8 to the maximum +5 sensitivity.
atpro24.mp3
or download atpro24.mp3
Original versions, no normalization:
oatpro24.mp3
or download oatpro24.mp3
Let’s Look at the Video
Let’s finish off with some actual video. Be careful with comparisons, but perhaps there will be some blatant differences we can take away. When I framed the shot to include the whole guitar the camera wound up about 5 feet from the instrument. I adjusted the Zi8 sensitivity for each mic using my normal procedure – the highest setting that did not show any red squares.
I had a little fun with my new Edius Neo 2.5 software putting together a compilation of the mic demonstrations.
All these mics sound better here than in the audio test with the recording, but they still show their basic characteristics. The camera mic picks up a lot more room, as it must at that distance. And since the room is a boxy little thing, the recording sounds small and boxy.
The H2 in this clip is very slightly overdriving the Zi8, to my ears. The slightly dark voice of the H2 comes through as well. The Sound Professionals SPSM-15 does a pretty decent job for very small bucks. I failed to mention in the video that the sensitivity on the Zi8 is down to -3. This means the SPSM-15 is quite sensitive, so it might be a problem if your source is loud. To my ear the AT825 is the winner. I like the clear presentation. I’m sorry I didn’t do a better job of balancing the channels.
I hope these comparisons are useful. I plan to try these mics with a different camera in a future post.
* * * Correction on 12/03/2010 * * *
The mic I keep calling an AT825 is actually and AT822, the unbalanced version. Sorry for the brain fog.
This entry was posted on Thursday, March 18th, 2010 at 9:57 pm and is filed under Audio, Comparisons, Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Anton Emery said in post # 1,
on March 19th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Thanks alot for that Fran. I got alot out of reading the post and the video. i have the H4, and have been wanting to do videos for youtube, etc. We have a fairly outdated mini DV camera, and i was thinking i could do parallel recording like you said. But it just seems like alot of work when something like the Zi8 is fairly cheap, i can hook the H4 up to it, and get audio and video on one source.
Anton
Fran Guidry said in post # 2,
on March 20th, 2010 at 10:01 am
I definitely recommend getting some kind of HD video shooter, but I definitely think it’s worth the little bit of effort to do parallel recording. The audio input on any camera below about $2000 is basically junk, according to all my research.
Fran
Kats Dad said in post # 3,
on March 29th, 2010 at 3:20 am
Fran,
Thanks for the reveiws. In a panic-4-Christmas decision I got my daughter the AT Pro24 to go with the Zi8. Like many, I was worried about line level from a preamp letting the smoke out of the shiney new Zi8 so I went with the “safe” choice of the mic made for a camcorder. Same result you found; low output. And kinda dulled vocals. Can’t fault AT I guess… I’m sure they make no claim this ($70) mic belongs in a music studio.
Example: (or any of her other songs Dec 24 ’09 (“Kiss Me”) or later)
Might TRY a real music mic (AT2035?), preamp, and attenuators (still that worry of smoke) into the Zi8 before giving in to buying and parallel recording to Zoom/Alesis/Tascam music recorder with line-in.
Kats Dad said in post # 4,
on March 29th, 2010 at 3:26 am
Oops…
Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJYXPrtWXPc
“The Way I Am” (or any of her other songs Dec 24 ’09 (“Kiss Me”) or later)
Fran Guidry said in post # 5,
on April 29th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Hey, Kats Dad,
I’m really sorry these got by without my noticing them. Thanks for stopping by.
After listening to your Pro24 recordings of Kat I’m actually quite impressed with your results. Of course having such a talented performer makes any mic sound a lot better.
An AT2035 or any other “real” mic with preamp and adapters will give a hotter signal, less noise, and a more full range response, but I don’t know if the result will be a night and day improvement. Honestly, the performance is by far the most important thing.
After that, it’s mostly a matter of reducing the flaws, like noise and bad room sound. Your recording is already very darned good in terms of minimizing the flaws. If I were you and trying to up the quality of my videos without getting into editing, I’d study lighting. It’s interesting and a bit complicated but it’s a huge part of getting good video.
Video editing is the final frontier, I guess. It’s kind of frustrating because it takes a LOT of computer power and it can get complicated, but with a video editing package you can combine multiple cameras, merge “color” clips into your video, do titling, add effects, zoom and crop your clips, PLUS record your audio separately using any mic arrangement you like, then tweak the audio with reverb, EQ, and compression – then merge the tweaked audio into the video.
It’s FUN!! And you have such a great subject.
Fran
Chad Arrieta said in post # 6,
on June 4th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Hi. I’m about to purchase a Zi8 and I want to know your recommendation on the best affordable mic out there for it.
I’m a singer, and I wanna be able to upload vids to youtube, along with live acoustic accompaniment.
Thanks!
Fran Guidry said in post # 7,
on June 4th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Chad, I can only offer the info in the post and the YouTube video. I thought the very inexpensive Sound Professionals SPSM-15 sounded OK to me.
If you really want good sound, though, I think you need to record on a higher quality system, then combine the audio and video in post production.
Fran
Homebrewed Music − Another Mic Comparison – Schoeps and Rode said in post # 8,
on June 15th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
[...] videography I’ve found even more gear to consider. The recent Homebrewed Music comparison of stereo mics for the Kodak Zi8 stimulated my interest in a microphone that is widely recommended as an excellent medium priced [...]
Daniel Berenson said in post # 9,
on August 12th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Beautiful video, Fran. I would like a recommendation for the Zi8. The SPSM 15 sounds great, but it only comes with a 1-meter cord. Now I’m going to need around 15-20 feet. How well do extension cords work and do you have any recommendations? (I’m afraid the cord will double or triple the price.) I was about to buy the cheap Audio Technica ATR 3350, which sounds fine on YouTube and has the requisite cord, but hey, it’s only mono.
Fran Guidry said in post # 10,
on August 12th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Daniel, perhaps you can use (or make) some adapters to connect via a standard mic cable? Are you handy with a soldering iron, do you have other cables around? If not, I’m afraid you’re right, you’ll spend more on cable than on an SPSM15.
You might run into noise problems with a long, unbalanced, cheap cable, depending on what kinds of equipment and lighting is around. But you never know until you try.
Good luck,
Fran
Daniel Berenson said in post # 11,
on August 14th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Thanks for the note, Fran. Naw, I’m not too good with a soldering iron, but I’m willing to try an extension cable. Radio Shack has them for $11. Just one more question. In the video, you have the SPSM on a stand. The Professional Sounds site says it comes with a “clip.” Does that mean it can clip onto clothing (like a lavalier) or does it have to be on a stand.? BTW, I’ll be videoing kids doing poetry slam kinds of performances, so I need the voices to be sharp, but I’m not expecting the standards a musician would demand. I just wanted the best for the money if I can attach it/tape it/ whatever to the kids’ clothes. And your video convinced me of the SPSM’s value. Thanks in advance for your advice. (The Zi8 is on the way, as of today.)
Carl Juneau said in post # 12,
on September 24th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Hi Fran,
I stumble on your YouTube video and clicked to your blog. What an amazing review! Exactly what I was looking for.
I film 5-min YouTube videos with a friend. We’re doing a vlog on exercise. We take questions from people and answer them in front of the camera.
Based on your video, I’d be tempted to buy a Zoom H2. Another option would be to hood two lavalier mics to the Zi8 using a splitter. What would you recommend?
Thanks a lot!
Carl Juneau
Fran Guidry said in post # 13,
on September 24th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Hi, Carl, I haven’t done any work with lavalier mics, but I’d be tempted to go that way. However, I’m not sure what kind of splitter would work. The Zi8 is providing plugin power, an unbalanced powering setup, and I don’t know which leg gets the power or if it goes to both. If I were using lavs I would probably get a very inexpensive mixer like a Behringer Eurorack and the hold the level way down when I fed the output to the Zi8.
If you’re working close to each other the H2 will probably do a good job, though.
Fran
Carl Juneau said in post # 14,
on September 25th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Hi Frank,
Thanks for your advice!
I just couldn’t get enough of that Zoom H2 sound, so I ordered one. Should get it next week. Can’t wait.
I already own an audio technica lavalier mic, and it’s battery powered. So having two wouldn’t be a problem, at least regarding the power.
Just for fun, here’s one video we did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9dAGZm5GDQ
Thanks again for your comparison and I might do one and report it here.
Best,
CJ
Hollywood Ian said in post # 15,
on October 1st, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Hello Fran,
Great review and samples. I just picked up one of these little beauties for my drum cover videos. I am using a single AKG dynamic mic with a Behringer pre-amp. Believe it or not, I record the actual CD playing through PA speakers with the drums simultaneously. I have set the sensitivity to -5 (the minimum) on the Zi8, and use the gain/output controls on the pre-amp. I am recording using 720p 30fps. Have a listen and let me know what you think soundwise. Not bad uh
Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/15467908
OR
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToqOBgpdAEk&fmt=22
Regards,
Hollywood Ian
Arlington Mike said in post # 16,
on October 18th, 2010 at 6:47 am
What an amazing video. Couldn’t be more perfect for what I needed to know. I just bought the Kodak PlayTouch — the brand-new version of the Zi8. Bought it because of the external mic jack, so that I could make YouTube videos of me playing my classical guitar. I’m still relatively new at guitar, but I’ve been trying to make videos once I master a piece that I’ve been working on. The sound from the in-camera mic isn’t all that bad (especially compared to the sound from my laptop computer mic when I tried recording using my webcam), but I wanted to hook up an external mic to get better sound. I already tried one mic that resulted in lousy sound, and I’m returning it. (Cost me nearly $100.) I’m going to order the SPSM-15 instead. Can’t wait to use it! Thanks for your help!
Mike
Fran Guidry said in post # 17,
on October 18th, 2010 at 7:20 am
Hi, Mike, do you visit the Delcamp classical guitar forum?
Glad to hear the blog post was useful to you.
Fran
Arlington Mike said in post # 18,
on October 18th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Fran — Not familiar with that forum, but if you recommend it, I’ll take a look.
Mike
Fran Guidry said in post # 19,
on October 18th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Mike, I don’t necessarily recommend it, although it seems like a good stop for a classical guitarist. I only visit the “Recording” section there but you can listen to lots of guitarists and upload your own material for comment.
http://www.delcamp.us/
Fran
ruben said in post # 20,
on October 26th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
great video with just what we need! I am looking for a cheap mic that would work with it. Which one would you recommend ? Also, is it fits into camcorder, is it possible to extend the cord of regular PC Microphone ? I will hide it somewhere in someon’e chest unless money comes to grab the real deal. Any suggestions for those who want really really cheap ways to get microphone to this amazing camcorder. I would love it if you could respond.
thank you so much again.
with regards
ruben
Fran Guidry said in post # 21,
on October 26th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Ruben, the PC mics I know about are mono, the mic input of the Zi8 is stereo.
You can buy extension cords with 1/8″ stereo female on one end, 1/8″ stereo male on the other.
The cheapest mic I could find was the SPSM-15 which I linked to in the article.
Sometimes headphones work as a mic. Have you tried plugging headphones into the Zi8 to see if they record anything?
**** Edit **** I just tried plugging a pair of ear buds I had laying around into the Zi8 to see if they would work as a mic. They didn’t. So I suppose that leaves the SPSM-15 as the least expensive way to go so far.
Fran
Bill Simonini said in post # 22,
on November 19th, 2010 at 6:42 am
Great job Fran!
I have mics from our old group but didn’t want to fry anything…among them AKG D320B … Beyer TGX 280 … audio-technica 37R … I’m assuming the a-t37R wont work without phanton power. The AKG’s are low impedance and I think the Beyers are too… and that’s why I hesitate to just plug em in. (I have and XLR to 3.5 mm balanced cord however) I do clawhammer banjo with some vocals and wanted some portability without 110v.
For the powered setup I was going to use the a-t37R’s through a little Alesis mixer. But… do I use line out or the headphone jack? All advice welcome!
Thanks, Billy
Thanks, Billy
Fran Guidry said in post # 23,
on November 19th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Hi, Billy.
I rigged up a bunch of adapters to try to connect a Shure SM57 to the Zi8 without a preamp. I used an unbalancing transformer to go from XLR low impedance to 1/4″ high impedance. Then a splitter to turn the mono 1/4″ into two, then an adapter to convert that to stereo 1/8″ to plug into the Zi8. Remember, if you don’t send the mic to both sides of the stereo jack you’ll only have audio on one side of your video.
With all these adapters and connectors wired up I had noise problems all the time – perhaps related to the plugin power and the mediocre connectors I used. If you make up custom cables you might have better luck.
My inclination would be to spend the $15 for the SPSM-15 or something similar.
Now, if you’re using a mixer, the headphone out is probably a better choice because you’re already stereo and you have a level control. Unless the headphone circuit is noisy.
Hope that helps,
Fran
Bill Simonini said in post # 24,
on November 20th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Thanks! Yes… just seems a shame to have thousand$ in mics and not being able to employ them without going “old school sound”.
Do you know of a “phantom powered” cord (with a battery inline) where I could use my little studio condensors? They sure sound great for what my wife and I do with an in house room setup. Just want to be portable to get some of those great jam moments… I bought them as guns for dobro, mandolin and other tough to mic instruments.
Fran Guidry said in post # 25,
on November 20th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
One solution is a battery powered mixer, like the Behringer 1002B: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/1002B.aspx This would let you use any of your mics.
For battery powered phantom, I found this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SPhantom/ which might work. There are other units offered by Sweetwater but they go up in price pretty quickly.
I’m afraid all of these are more expensive than buying a cheap stereo mic. But they might sound better, and they might be useful for other projects.
Fran
Tom Sparkman said in post # 26,
on December 7th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
As others have said, your review is exactly the info I’ve been looking for. Have you had occasion to test the Sony ECM-DS70P? Several of the advertising blurbs say it is excellent for recording acoustic guitar. Thanks for the great site. Tom
Fran Guidry said in post # 27,
on December 7th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Sorry, I’m maintaining a lifetime boycott of Sony and all their products. I was always a bit annoyed by their market manipulation, but their introduction of the rootkit exploit into the world put them on my “do not buy” list long ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal
Fran
Jim said in post # 28,
on December 9th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Fran, I purchased the Zi8 and like everyone else I need to connect a mic. I have a SM58 but from what’s been said it doesn’t appear to be the best choice. My goal is to make fairly good home recordings of acoustic and electric guitar while keeping it simple and user friendly.
The SPSM-15 has been discontinued! They have the SPSM-16. It’s their new low priced single point mic but I can’t find any reference for using this with the Zi8.
Does the inexpensive –15 and –16 mics require anything else to get started recording, adaptors etc?
Thanks for providing great information. Nice job on the Q3hd too but it was out of my budget.
Jim
Fran Guidry said in post # 29,
on December 9th, 2010 at 11:09 am
Hi, Jim,
I just rigged up a chain of adapters to go from an SM58 to the Zi8. I used a Radio Shack transformer adapter: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062443 which converts the balanced low impedance output of the SM58 to unbalanced high impedance. This also provides a gain boost. From there I used an adapter to convert the single signal to two “stereo” signals, then another converter to go from 1/4″ to 1/8″ stereo. With those adapters I was able to record from the SM58 to the Zi8 with no problem and with decent quality.
If you’re handy with a soldering iron, or know someone who is, you can wire up a cable to make these connections, although the signal boost from the transformer will be missing.
The inexpensive mics from Sound Professionals don’t need any adapters, but may need an extension cable, which will probably cost as much as the mic.
Fran
Fran Guidry said in post # 30,
on December 9th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Whoa, just browsing through the Radio Shack online store and found http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102692 , a cute little adapter that turns a 1/4″ mono plug into a 1/8″ stereo plug. This could come in handy for hooking single mics up to the Zi8. I’ll bet there are lots of bits and pieces and complete cable solutions out there to get a mic into the 1/8″ stereo input of the Zi8.
Fran
Jim said in post # 31,
on December 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Wow, you’re fast with the set-up!
OK, for the SM58 to Zi8 I get the part about needing the $19.00 transformer adapter thing.
The other is not so clear. I understand a single signal to stereo adapter is needed and a 1/4″ to 1/8” adapter is also needed but doesn’t this $3.00 adapter that you mentioned from Radio Shack take care of both issues?
I’m getting excited about this little set-up. It may be a better way for me than the inexpensive mics from Sound Professionals.
Also, my Taylor guitar came with a 1/4″ to XLR balanced cable that I’ve been scratching my head trying to find a way to use with all of this.
Much appreciated,
Jim
Fran Guidry said in post # 32,
on December 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I’m retired and have drawers full of junk (grin).
Once you’re fooling with adapters, there are always many ways to do things. I don’t have an adapter to go from XLR to 1/4 unbalanced except for my transformer, but if you have something, I’d try it, along with the little RS 1/4 mono -> 1/8 stereo piece. I discovered the little Radio Shack adapter after I’d completed my first post.
Someone had an adapter made by Hosa that included XLR female, transformer (unbalance, impedance conversion, and voltage gain), and 1/8″ stereo plug, the whole chain in one piece. Visit the Acoustic Guitar Forum if you haven’t already. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php
One advantage of building a chain of adapters – they can be re-purposed for other siturations. Disadvantages are many, of course.
Hope these ideas help.
Fran
Jim said in post # 33,
on December 9th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Yep, a big help!
I ordered the Hosa all-in-one adapter. I’ll let you know how it does after Christmas.
Your acoustic guitar forum is a very cool place.
Thanks, Jim
Joshua Gordon said in post # 34,
on December 10th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
My group the Lydian String Quartet used the Zi8 for this video at http://lydianquartet.com/listen.html . I set the tripod on the side of the stage, a pair of Oktava mk012 mics up front at stage center, and ran the cords with adaptors to an MAudio Microtrack ii recorder for phantom power and a miniplug cable connected to the Zi8′s input. If you spring for good audio mics, another solution would be a Beachtek or Juiced Link mic preamp/video tripod adaptor but I haven’t tried one yet (ex. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563070-REG/juicedLink_CX231_CX231_Audio_Mixer_and.html).
Fran Guidry said in post # 35,
on December 10th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
Thanks for the link to the lovely video. This combination worked wonderfully for you.
Fran
Kats Dad said in post # 36,
on December 13th, 2010 at 1:13 am
Belated update…
Back in March I asked an Audio Technica Audio Solutions Specialist about low recording levels from the PRO24 mic. He replied, “Try powering the PRO24 with the battery. We have found that this increases the sensitivity and improves the signal-to-noise ratio over plug-in power.” (so it’s OK to use the battery with a device that has plug-in power, I guess)…
With battery… seems to pick up quiet details a little better, but still a little muddy…
Continued…
Kats Dad said in post # 37,
on December 13th, 2010 at 1:39 am
With battery… seems to pick up quiet details a little better, but still a little muddy…
My Pedestal (original)
Continued (sorry, don’t seem to be able to put more than one sentance in?)…
Kats Dad said in post # 38,
on December 13th, 2010 at 1:40 am
He went on to suggest running a large diaphram condenser mic like the AT2035 I mentioned to him… through an AT8801 phantom power supply (NOT a preamp) directly into the Zi8. I hadn’t thought of that… I don’t think I’d seen anyone else suggest it either… sort of a “duh” moment… the Zi8 takes mic level input, why add an external preamp in the chain? I got a cheaper (19.99) Nady phantom power supply to use with the AT2035 mic… much better clarity than the PRO24, I think…
The House That Built Me (cover)
Nothing But Myself (original)
Diagram (using Hosa XVM-105 wired to send same XLR mono signal to both Zi8 channels):
Continued…
Kats Dad said in post # 39,
on December 13th, 2010 at 2:25 am
OK, an hour trying to put in link is too much… cut and paste in your browser without the spaces if you want to see it…
Diagram (using Hosa XVM-105 wired to send same XLR mono signal to both Zi8 channels) is at…
h t t p://yfrog.com/jqsinglemictozi8j
Now have two AT2035 mics through two Nady Phantom Power supplies into individual channels on Zi8 by way of Hosa CYX-405F (guitar mic left channel, vocal mic right channel… uploaded to YouTube that way without post-mixing unfortunately)…
Hot n Cold (cover)
Diagram is at…
h t t p://yfrog.com/5s00dualmicj
To get both mics to both channels (without DAW post-mixing), might use mic combiner such as AT8681 ($65), one Nady phantom power supply, and go back to Hosa XVM-105. That would allow straight to YouTube with no mixing.
Diagram is at…
h t t p://yfrog.com/mstwinmictozi8j
Haven’t tried this yet… might skip it and go to parallel audio with good dual channel preamp and Zoom H2, and mix in DAW.
Fran Guidry said in post # 40,
on December 13th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Thanks, Dad, for documenting and diagramming all your experiences. The sound quality of the “Hot and Cold” cover is a big jump up for sure. It’s great to hear Kat with such excellent quality.
I’m afraid the anti-spam tools make it hard to enter links into comments. I really appreciate your patience and persistence, both in dealing with mics and the Zi8 and in dealing with this blogging software.
Fran
GORKEM said in post # 41,
on December 22nd, 2010 at 4:15 am
Dear Fran
First of all thank you very much for sharing your experience with us. It really saves big time for people like us who works during the daytime and tries to do their best on weekend with recording. I have just ordered Zi8 that is on the way. I do have sennheiser E 935. Do you think I can hook it up with Zi8? I do live in London so there is no radioshack here. If you suggest me any other mic if sennheiser not a good idea then please do.
And very important question, where can I get good info about parallel recording? As a starter in home brewed video – audio recording, I would really appreciate if I can get good information or link abt this paralel recording so can record audio and video individually. ( if there is any software to sync audio and video and enables for this type of recording you are more than welcome to suggest for sure)
I appreciate Fran
Gorkem
Fran Guidry said in post # 42,
on December 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 am
I have learned that there are a number of adapter cables designed for exactly this task. I haven’t used any of these, but the description sounds correct. For instance, the HOSA MIT-156 includes a female XLR, transformer, and mono to stereo connection in a single cable. I expect that there are other similar cables available. You can order these on-line from various places if you can’t find a reseller in London.
For syncing audio and video when parallel recording, I’ve found REAPER to do an excellent job, and I did a blog post demonstrating the process: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2010/07/15/syncing-audio-to-video-in-reaper/
Fran
Jim said in post # 43,
on December 25th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Hi Fran, here is a video we did today with our new Zi8 using a SM58 mic. I also posted this info on The Acoustic Guitar Forum.
I recorded my 10yr old boy playing guitar with the new Zi8 right out of the package. The guitar is unplugged. The sound is coming straight out of the sound hole and picked up by a SM58 mic. The mic is placed about 2 feet from the front of the guitar with a long xlr cable connecting it to the Hosa MIT-156, which plugs strait into the camcorder. The internal mic gain is placed about ¾ scale. That’s it, nothing more. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANlpKx5DrH4
Fran Guidry said in post # 44,
on December 26th, 2010 at 12:00 am
Jim, your results speak for themselves. Good clean video, good clean clear audio, remarkable playing. Thanks for letting us know about your clip. If you’d really like to share what you’ve learned, you might update the description of the clip to include the techie details. That converter you found takes care of a lot of the steps in going from a low impedance dynamic to the Zi8 or another video shooter with a stereo mic input.
Fran
Jon Tsujimura said in post # 45,
on December 26th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
I really enjoy your web site! I use the Zoom H2 to record many of my wife’s jazz and rock band performances around town. I just recently purchased a Kodak Zi8 and was thinking of getting the Sound Professionals SPSM-16. I will probably use a 20′ to 30′ cable. If I encounter noise, what can I do to reduce the noise?
Jon
Mililani HI
Fran Guidry said in post # 46,
on December 26th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Hi, Jon,
We had a fine lunch in Mililani the other day.
I don’t have any suggestions for reducing noise with an inexpensive mic, a long cable, and the Zi8. But I do recommend that you try using the H2 as a powered mic before you purchase the Sound Professionals unit.
Fran
Jon Tsujimura said in post # 47,
on December 26th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Thanks Fran! Using the H2 was another option that I have been playing around with. It also looks like the H2 can be recording while acting as a mic for the Zi8. I am going to have to play with the levels on the H2 and the Zi8 to get the results I need.
Anyway, I think that it is cool that you have such a great appreciation for the Hawaiian Islands and slack key guitar!
Aloha!
Jon
Mililani HI
Dennis said in post # 48,
on January 1st, 2011 at 9:58 am
Thank you for all your advice and sharing Fran. I just got a Zi8 for $100 and am ordering a SPS-1 with an extension cable to make some acoustic guitar video. I noticed that the 15 was discontinued and they say that the 1 is an improved performance replacement. The Zi8 mic vid you made was quite good and very helpful to many folks I am sure. I read up on your site quite frequently and have learned a lot from your experiences. Thanks so much for sharing. God Bless. Dennis
William said in post # 49,
on January 2nd, 2011 at 4:37 am
Hi Fran,
I’m from Hong Kong. First of all please forgive my poor English
I bought a Kodak Zi8 yesterday. My attempt is to shoot videos of me playing acoustic guitar at home. But I am new to the audio world and I really need some help.
Without doing a thorough research, I mistakenly thought that I could use a cheap 3.5mm-to-3.5mm cable to connect my Roland R-05 portable digital recorder and the new Zi8, and then use the R-05 as an external mic for the Zi8. I have been satisfied with the sound quality of my R-05. However, when it is connected to the Zi8, the sound quality turns quite bad! It has so much noise of the background and I rather use the internal mic of the Zi8!
After reading your posts and others’ comments, I learned that I may need some kinds of cable or adapter to make the two devices work well together, am I right? Could you please teach me what I should get in order to achieve the goal of using the R-05 as an external mic for the Zi8? Or is it a wrong attempt? They two cannot work together?
Thank you so much!
Happy new year!
William
Fran Guidry said in post # 50,
on January 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am
William, from your description I think you just need to turn the headphone output of the R05 to a lower setting.
To adjust levels, setup the R05 connected to the Zi8, put the R05 in playing position, and put the Zi8 right in front of you but facing away, so you can operate the menu. Go to the settings menu, choose External Mic Gain, and adjust that setting all the way to the lowest level. Then play into the R05 and watch the meter. Adjust the headphone output of the R05 so the rightmost white square lights up, but not the first yellow square.
Now you should be ready to setup the Zi8 in position to take your video. As I recall, you will need to reset the Zi8 to its lowest sensitivity every time you turn it on. You can probably just remember the setting for the R05 headphone output.
I hope this helps.
Fran
William said in post # 51,
on January 3rd, 2011 at 5:15 am
Hey Fran,
Thank you!!! It works!!! So stupid that I don’t even know I can adjust the external mic gain on the Zi8…
But may I know if the recording quality of the R-05 would be downgraded when it is used as an external mic?
Thanks!
William
Fran Guidry said in post # 52,
on January 3rd, 2011 at 11:40 am
William, it’s quite possible that the headphone output is not as good as the recording quality, this is a way some manufacturers reduce costs. One of my favorite recorders, the Fostex FR2-LE, has great recording but terrible headphone output.
I also find the Zi8 recording to be less in quality than my Zoom H2, so it’s probably lower in quality than your R-05. This is why I continued to record separately and sync the audio and video in post production. And why I find the Zoom Q3HD so enjoyable, it has the best audio quality I’ve heard from a relatively low cost camera.
Fran
Laserleikkaus said in post # 53,
on January 3rd, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Thanks for good info! Have you found any new mics?
Fran Guidry said in post # 54,
on January 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Howdy, Laserleikkaus,
My latest mic is one I really like, the Rode NT4. It’s a stereo X/Y mic that uses the caps from the Rode NT5. It can be powered with a 9 volt battery or P48 phantom. It can provide output on either a pair of XLRs or a stereo 1/8″ mini plug. I find the quality to be excellent, and it’s a very convenient mic to setup and use.
Fran
William said in post # 55,
on January 4th, 2011 at 8:24 am
Fran, at first I did want to get a ZOOM Q3HD. It is really convenient! Looks cool as well! But after watching one of your review about the problem of distance, I decided not to buy it. I want to capture my face and my guitar so the Q3 must be placed a bit far from my body. Yet, I got a soft voice and I’m afraid that distance would affect the volume of the video. That’s why…
Anyway, I’m still happy with the Zi8. Your reviews and advice really help me a lot! Thanks!
William
Fran Guidry said in post # 56,
on January 4th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Hi, William,
The problem of framing distance just won’t go away. Like you, I try to get my face in the shot, so I’m always working around the issue of distance as well.
Can we see some of your clips on YouTube or another site?
Fran
William said in post # 57,
on January 5th, 2011 at 3:33 am
Sure. I will post the link here once I have made one. Gotta practice more on my guitar before I can shoot a good take.
Dennis said in post # 58,
on January 7th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Hey Fran, I got the Zi8 and the SPSM-1 and tried them out last night. I set the cam on a variety of settings and still seemed to get a fairly high noise signature. (ssssssssssssss). Am I possibly missing something? I was recording in 720-30fps, and the mic sitting 18″ in front of the neck/body joint. It did not sound as good as your audio recording of it here. Thanks in advance.
Fran Guidry said in post # 59,
on January 7th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Dennis, sorry to hear you’re having noise problems. In my evaluation I note that I turned down the Zi8 External Mic Gain to -3, or three clicks to the left, this is pretty low. And with an omni mic you might get a little closer, say 12″ instead of 18″.
Do you have any other device you can use to test the mic? A cassette or minidisc recorder perhaps? Ideally you’d like to determine if the source of the noise is the mic or the camera.
Fran
Dennis said in post # 60,
on January 8th, 2011 at 9:12 am
Matter of fact I do have an old portastudio that may work. I didn’t think of that. I did note that when I viewed the clip on my TV that I did not notice the hiss as much as with the play-back on the tiny speaker of the Zi8. I will continue to test and thanks for your advice. I will post back here when I get it figured out.
swisswiss said in post # 61,
on February 1st, 2011 at 7:37 am
Does the Zi8 have specs on bit size and kps? Thanks
swisswiss said in post # 62,
on February 1st, 2011 at 7:40 am
Never mind: another site said Audio always 128 kbps stereo AAC, 48 KHz
Fran Guidry said in post # 63,
on February 1st, 2011 at 9:05 am
Right, 128kbps, 48khz, AAC.
Fran
Joy Sikorski said in post # 64,
on February 20th, 2011 at 12:14 am
Hi Fran,
I like the gentle sound of your guitar playing and appreciate what you did with your mic experiments and the Kodak z18.
I’m hoping you can help me.
I have a Kodak z18 and a Shure SM57. However, I know very little about the technical part of audio recording and need to know how to connect the Shure mic to the Kodak z18. I have xlr cables for the Shure but do not know which adapter I might need and cannot seem to find answers elsewhere.
Do you have any suggestions?
I really appreciate your input.
Joy
Fran Guidry said in post # 65,
on February 20th, 2011 at 8:15 am
Hi, Joy,
I guess the comment has scrolled away, but we did find a cable that is just the ticket for connecting a dynamic mic to the Zi8. It’s the Hosa MIT156 adapter cable. It has the correct connector for the Shure mic, a transformer that adds a bit of voltage gain, and connections to a stereo 1/8″ plug so the signal goes to both sides of the Zi8 input. I found it for sale online at Full Compass at a reasonable price: http://www.fullcompass.com/product/245538.html
Hope this helps,
Fran
Joy Sikorski said in post # 66,
on February 20th, 2011 at 10:00 am
Hi Fran,
Thanks for your quick response.
I had seen this Hosa cable on Amazon last night after I wrote to you. It seems like the same thing but the product ID is different.
Is there a big difference in audio quality between the 2 that warrants the big difference in price?
Also, I’m a little confused about the size of the mic input. The Zi8 is 3.5mm but the one you mentioned says that it is 1/8″.
Again, thanks for your insights and suggestions.
Kindly,
Joy
Fran Guidry said in post # 67,
on February 20th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Hi, Joy.
3.5mm and 1/8″ are both used to designate the mini-plug and jack system.
The adapter you linked to is similar but has two differences.
First, it has a male XLR, which is the opposite of the one you need to connect to the SM57. This one is intended to plug into a mixing board or preamp.
Second, it lacks the transformer. It may indeed do the job just fine. There are theoretical benefits to using the transformer version – the output from the SM57 is pretty low and the transformer boosts the level in the process of “unbalancing” the connection. While these are desirable features they may not be needed. And low cost transformers are not known for excellent transparency
If you’re interested in keeping costs as low as possible, you can use an adapter with the proper XLR and add a transformer to your chain later if you find that you need more output.
Here’s where it gets a bit complicated. The adapter on Amazon that looks correct, has the correct plugs, is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-XVS102F-Right-Angle-3-5mm/dp/B0010CV2FO/ref=pd_cp_MI_2
But the description indicates that this is intended as a stereo mic cable, not a mono to stereo adapter. So the wiring might be wrong for your use. It’s a subtle difference but can lead to a lot of frustration.
Here on the Hosa page for Specialty Mic Cables http://www.hosatech.com/category/338053/Specialty_Microphone_Cables are some adapters with slightly different model numbers but also slightly different descriptions. The XVM cables like these: http://www.hosatech.com/products/340381/XLR3F_to_Right-angle_3.5_mm_TRS are the ones that I would select. It comes in several lengths and is lower in cost than the transformer model.
Hope this helps.
Fran
Fran
Joy Sikorski said in post # 68,
on February 20th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Hi Fran,
You’re the best! I’ve learned more from this thread with you than anywhere else!
For instance, I had no idea that I in dealing with a mono mic to stereo plug things needed to match. As I mentioned, I’m not audio engineer at all, so I didn’t catch that. But the way you explained things, including the transformer info, I think I want to go with the original thing you suggested.
It’s too bad that Amazon doesn’t carry it and qualify it for their free shipping over orders of $25 because I have a Amazon gift certificate for that amount and had hoped to use it for this. Ah well.
I am deciding which company to buy it from thought because Pro Audio also carries it for $2 less and can use PayPal for payment. I still have to compare shipping costs, however, and that has to wait until tomorrow because the Pro Audio folks are not available by phone today. Full Compass ships it for $8.95, in case anyone needs to do something similar to what I am doing.
Anyhow, I’ll let you know what I decide so that if anyone else has these questions, they’ll have more info about Pro Audio shipping and payment info too.
Thanks again,
Joy
Joy Sikorski said in post # 69,
on February 22nd, 2011 at 11:23 am
Hi Fran,
A quick note to let you know that I bought the Hosa MIT156 at J&R Electronics, as you suggested.
It was $16.99 plus $2.77 shipping, so under $20 total!
Thanks again for your help. I truly appreciate it!
Joy
Jesse Thompson said in post # 70,
on June 4th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Thank you for the video re: mikes for ZI8
I have one that is rotten for sound quality, no volume, much less resonance or depth.
I have ordered an ATR6550 and am bidding on an AT875 with XLR, both resonance mikes.
I’m 85, recently got interested in recording some of my old songs—Burl Ives type, folky more or less, old stuff, want decent sound and am so far frustrated.
Thank you for the way you play the guitar. I love it.
I had a Martin D28 for over fifty years, sadly, I sold it a few years ago.
Ah, well.
Thanks again.
Jesse Thompson
josef said in post # 71,
on November 1st, 2011 at 12:45 pm
That video was awesome. Very in–depth info.
But can I use my SM57 with the Zi8?
Fran Guidry said in post # 72,
on November 1st, 2011 at 1:44 pm
You _can_ use the SM57, but the special cable will cost about the same as one of these cheap stereo omni electret mics. See the post above for the specific cable that converts impedance and does the mono to stereo adaptation as well. It’s the Hosa MIT156.
Fran
Sean said in post # 73,
on December 15th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Hi Fran,
Thanks for all of your great advice and videos. I have just recently purchased the Zoom H2 to compliment my Kodak Zi8 to record some of my own guitar work and some live performances. I recently tried using the Zoom as an external mic to record some of my friends rock concert and I was pretty disappointed with the results as I had to keep the mic gain on the zoom on L and back the Kodak gain all the way down to prevent the Kodak audio from distorting. Going forward i’d like to replace the video audio with the audio captured on the Zoom as you suggest in many of your replies. Is there inexpensive or free software that will allow me to line the audio up and replace it? I tried using the Kodak software that came with the Zi8, but it only allows you to insert an audio file and doesn’t let you line the audio up.
Thanks again for all the great material!
Sean
Fran Guidry said in post # 74,
on December 15th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Sean, I have a couple of blog posts in here about using REAPER audio editing software to merge video and separately recorded audio. It’s a bit techie but quite effective and very low cost.
Sony Vegas is another commonly used tool for this job, available in some low cost versions.
I also did a blog post on using AVIdemux for syncing, but it’s even more techie than using REAPER.
Hope this helps,
Fran